The 2010 Emmys: The Good and the Evil

The title of this posting is clearly an exaggeration, in that what I will describe as the things that were not pleasing to me on last night’s Emmy Awards really does not qualify as evil. However, I feel this title is appropriate, since among the evil things is the lack of Lost recognition, and as you might know, I have written somewhat frequently regarding Good v. Evil on Lost. Isn’t it nice when I over-explain my writings? No? Oh, then you would hate when I over-explain jokes in real life (as opposed to bloggy life). Onto my Emmy induced thoughts!
The (Mostly) Good

Jimmy Fallon did a reasonably fantastic job as Emmy host. I was skeptical before the show, because there have been times where he has been lacking in the funny, presumably when he’s been overwhelmed with nervousness. However, he was quite funny for the most part, and he really did a great job. The opening Glee musical thing and the tribute to deceased shows (including Lost) were funny, entertaining, and very well executed. I also very much enjoyed the musical introductions to each section of awards. Jimmy’s non-musical words were also funny throughout the program, particularly the pro-Conan and anti-NBC remark. I would say that Jimmy did an excellent and flawless job, but there is one small portion of his hosting that renders such a statement impossible; the tweeted introductions for presenters were simply not amusing or well written. This is not surprising, since they were tweeted by regular, non-comedy-writer people. That is not to say there aren’t funny and talented regular people out there, but that is to say that believing that those funny and talented people could be found in time for a big awards show was probably not very wise. I had a feeling this wouldn’t go well, but I had hoped that the funny people out there on the Twitter would show themselves, but unfortunately, that was not the case. Jimmy Fallon, there is a reason that professional writers write things, and you demonstrated that nicely. It’s fun to find silver linings. Jimmy’s presenter intros that were written by professional comedy writers (presumably Jimmy himself) were well written, and some were definitely funny, particularly the intros involving Law & Order SVU saving the 10 P.M. time slot that Leno left for dead, and Jimmy hugging his long lost father, Tom Selleck.

The (Mostly) Evil

Lost didn’t win things. Lost should have won things. Specifically, Michael Emerson (or at least Terry O’Quinn) should have won for Best Supporting Actor in a Drama, Matthew Fox (or at least Hugh Laurie of House M.D.) should have won for Best Actor in a Drama and Matthew Fox should have won for Hottest Drama Man Ever (and Seth MacFarlane would win Hottest Comedy Man Ever in this award show in my brain). Lost should have won Best Drama TV Show (or whatever that category is called), and I think the Emmy audience agrees with me since they seemed to cheer the loudest when Lost was mentioned. I don’t remember who won for Best Writing and Best Directing, but probably Lost should have won those too (yes, I could google it, but I am too lazy).

Glee should have won more things than it did. However, I’m very happy that they won Best Directing and that Jane Lynch won for Best Supporting Actress. It would have been nice for Glee to win Best Comedy Show on the TV, but since they lost, I’m glad they lost to Modern Family, another great show (though Glee is better). Speaking of Modern Family, I enjoyed the cute thing they did with George Clooney and Stewie. I would put that part in the “Good” section, however, I don’t have anything else to say about it, and it fits more nicely here.

Conan didn’t win. Conan should have won, not only because he deserved to win, and not only because it was Conan’s only chance to win for his work on The Tonight Show with Conan O’Brien, but also because it would have been a nice, clear Conan-is-better-than-Jay statement to Jay Leno and NBC. Despite this loss, however, I do believe that the statement was made nonetheless; after all, Conan was nominated, but Jay was not.

Since Conan didn’t win, The Colbert Report really should have. As much as I love The Daily Show, and as great as it’s been this year, The Colbert Report is generally a better show, and the week in Iraq this year was certainly of Emmy-winning caliber. Since The Colbert Report also didn’t win for Best Funny Variety Show, I am glad The Daily Show won. I’m also glad that the guy accepting the award mentioned Colbert and Conan, and I’m glad that he reminded us that the people at The Daily Show are worthy of their numerous Emmys.

SPOILER ALERT – Lost Season 6 “The End”

I apologize for the delay in posting this and the preceding two postings, but I haven’t been feeling well. The following was written on the night of the Lost finale (May 23, 2010) and in the days subsequent to it.

These are thoughts I’m having after the final episode of Lost, "The End," was over. See this blog posting for the thoughts I had during the episode, and this one for the thoughts I had during the retrospective before the final episode, “The Final Journey.”

Confirmed, Disconfirmed, and Non-Existent Predictions

Woohoo!!!!! I was finally proven right!!!!! When all hope was lost, I clung to some hope anyway, and I was right! I go girl! I am awesome, and you are more awesome for reading my blog and my correct predictions!!!!!!

Yes, Hurley finally became the new Jacob, or, more accurately, the new New Jacob! Jack, the first New Jacob, ordained Hurley as the new New Jacob before Jack sacrificed himself for the Island, his friends, and the world by fulfilling his life’s purpose of re-kindling the Light. While I didn’t predict that Jack would be an intermediary Jacob, I did have Jack as my back-up prediction, and I did recognize that both Jack and Hurley possessed the most Jacobliness, experienced the most personal growth, and seemed to have the most favor in Jacob’s eyes. In addition to the Hurley-is-the-new-Jacob portion of my prediction, I had also predicted that the Flash-Sideways was a creation of Hurley where he and his friends could live the happy fulfilling lives they were meant to live. I was almost correct, since Christian Shephard explains that the Flash-Sideways is an afterlife created by all of the Lost people in it such that they would be able to find each other. Personally, I believe that Hurley probably guided their efforts to create that afterlife, and since he was the new New Jacob, it is certainly possible.

I was completely and utterly wrong about what I insisted on calling the New Reality. It isn’t reality at all, which is why I will now give in and call it the Flash-Sideways like the rest of the world. The possibility that it wasn’t real, that it was an afterlife, never crossed my mind. As I’ve mentioned before, I would have felt that the island being Hell or an afterlife would be a huge cop-out, and that is why I refused to believe such a thing; perhaps that is also why it never crossed my mind that the Flash-Sideways might be an afterlife. Except that wasn’t a cop-out at all. It would have been so nice if it were real, and I think my hope that it was real was too strong to allow me to see any other possibilities. Also, I’m probably just not the world’s best Lost predictor, although you have to admit, I’m not too shabby.

I was right about there being a big Jack v. Fake Locke argument about Fate v. Coincidence, except in the more specific form of Everything Matters v. Nothing Matters. Obviously the argument was reversed, in that Jack has learned from Real John Locke (and from his experiences and ruminations and so forth) to be on the side of fate, and everything mattering, while Fake John Locke/The Smoke Monster/Man in Black was on the side of coincidence and nothing mattering. It’s possible that Fake Locke was only saying the things he said to screw with Jack, since he knew that could have been Jack’s weakness, if Jack wasn’t so strong and hot. I suppose his hotness probably has nothing to do with it though.

Plot

The short version of my analysis of what happened is pretty much what they told us happened. The island was real life, the New Reality/Flash-Sideways was not real, and was some kind of Heaven-like afterlife, or maybe a pre-Heaven thing, since they were all planning to move on when they were ready. Matthew Fox explained on Jimmy Kimmel’s Aloha to Lost that there is a religion where they believe that when you die, you don’t move on until you remember your death, how you died, and everyone involved. It seems our characters had to remember their life on the island in order to be ready to move on. Perhaps they also needed to accept certain things about themselves, and to let go. For example, Ben probably needed to work through and let go of his sins before he would be ready. It’s interesting that the Island was their true life, sine so many people, including myself at one point, thought the Island could be the afterlife, or even Hell.

The most important part of their lives was on the island, as Dead Christian Shephard explained to his dead son Jack, and so they somehow made sure they would be able to find each other there in the afterlife. They are all dead, but as Christian implied, they did not all die young, and we can assume that many of them lived long lives. I would imagine that Hurley and Ben probably lived the longest, since Hurley is the new Jacob and he appointed Ben as his Richard (i.e. as his guide, his number 2).

The man who plays Michael (Harold Perrineau) explained on Jimmy Kimmel that Michael will remain on the island, perhaps forever. I imagine that is because of evil things he did. Of course Ben did a lot more things that were horribly evil, yet he is in the pleasant afterlife and allowed to move on when he is ready (presumably), though it is taking a longer time for him to get there than the less evil people. I imagine Ben is not destined to be a ghost on the island because he redeemed himself – he turned good via his emotional breakthrough, and while he strayed briefly for the sake of survival, he came back to the side of Good, ultimately becoming the second in command, the advisor, the Richard to the good and pure Hurley.

I think Eloise Widmore/Hawking might have been ready to move on, but I don’t believe Charles Widmore or their son, Daniel Widmore/Faraday, were ready. I imagine this is why Eloise did not want Desmond to take her son with him; she wanted to keep her family together, because they belong together, just as our other characters belong together.


We now have confirmation of whether Charles Widmore is good or evil. Similar to Ben, he was evil, often for the sake of the Island and Jacob, but turned good, with the help of Jacob. Widmore had said that Jacob had visited him and convinced him to change his evil ways. I wasn’t sure I believed him at the time, but I do now. It makes sense, since he seemed to know things that Jacob would have told him, as did Eloise Hawking, whom Jacob probably also visited. There is now unquestionable evidence that Widmore is Good; he was in the same place as the rest of our Good characters, and was not left to be a ghost on the Island, as evil people are. Similar to Ben, he and perhaps Eloise were not ready to move on, perhaps because they still had to work through all the evil things they did before turning Good.


I have one problem with Lost (right now, maybe I’ll think of more later). Why didn’t Desmond or Jack turn into Smoke Monsters? Previous Jacob Lady told Jacob that if he ever went into the Light, he would suffer a fate worse than death, and when Jacob threw Man in Black into the Light, he turned into the Smoke Monster, demonstrating what Previous Jacob Lady meant. I understand why Desmond didn’t turn to smoke, since he is not immortal or divine, and therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that different rules might apply. I suppose Jack didn’t turn to smoke because he was turning the Light back on and was therefore not going toward it, but was rather going away from it. I guess I cleared that smoke up for myself. Hahahahahaha! I made a pun!

The Island is under water in the Flash-Sideways, but they are in some kind of afterlife. This could mean that it’s so far into the future that the Island has sunken some time after Hurley’s time as Jacob. This is possible, since Christian Shephard explained that time does not exist there. Alternatively, and this is the way I’m leaning, since this afterlife is a better version of their lives, as the producers said in “The Final Journey” and I suggested early in the season, in this life, the Island and Jacob are not exerting their effects on our characters. It wasn’t the Island that made their time on the island the greatest time of their lives, it was the people, and that is why they created that Heaven such that they could find each other again.


Purgatory

Jimmy Kimmel and some people on Myface (Facebook) have concluded that the Island was some kind of Purgatory. I personally don’t believe this, and there is evidence against it. In the Flash-Sideways, when each character peacefully and happily realized they were dead and accepted it with tremendous peace, they had memories of the Island – their lives flashed before their eyes. Why would such a critical moment come with memories of time spent in Purgatory rather than memories from the greatest part of a person’s life, particularly when this is all happening in a fictional drama show on the TV? Of course, the Island is bizarre, and crazy, supernatural things happen there, but this is fiction, and it was presented in a way that allowed for very comfortable suspended disbelief, at least in my opinion.

The Flash-Sideways might be some kind of purgatory, as a friend (and probably others) have suggested. I don’t believe it is Purgatory in what I understand to be the traditional sense. It was not a place of suffering, or a quasi-Hell, or soul purification, but it might be a place where people work out their issues – some sins, some just issues – and eventually accept and let go of whatever is necessary. For John Locke, he needed to let go of the sense that he needed to punish himself, and he needed to accept his disability so he could be freed from both. Jack needed to accept his father’s death and thereby let go of his father. Additionally, Jack also had to accept his father’s life, in that he had to accept the kind of person and father Christian Shephard was; that is why Jack has a son in the Flash-Sideways. Sayid needed to let go of the sense that he was evil, and needed to accept that he is good. Ben still needs to work through his many sins, since, like Sayid, he is also good, and he proved that in his life, just as Sayid proved he was still good when he (Sayid) sacrificed himself to save his friends. These are but a few examples; for each character, there was something to be accepted, something to work through, something to let go of; perhaps someday I will discuss more of them (but don't hold your breath). Once they were able to let go, when they were ready, they could leave; they could move on, perhaps to Heaven, perhaps to another part of Heaven, perhaps towards Nirvana. Regardless of what you believe, they moved on to something greater.

The Death of Jack

A friend suggested that Jack might have been the last to die, since he was the last to have his memories re-ignited. That got me thinking, when he died after climbing out of the Light, an eternity could have passed since Jack as the previous New Jacob might have become immortal or quasi-immortal. Since Rose and Bernard’s doggie was with him as he died, did Fake John Locke give our kind couple and their dog immortality when he promised Desmond they would never be hurt? If so, that’s nice of him, and provides further evidence that despite his intensely evil ways, Fake Locke/The Smoke Monster/Man in Black did have some glimmer of Good left in him Whether or not they were given quasi-immortality, Rose and Bernard did die eventually, since they were in the Flash-Sideways.

I think there is evidence that Jack died soon after Hurley’s Jacobification. As Jack lay dying, he saw the plane overhead flying away; this was probably the plane carrying his friends, and so Jack knew that they made it off the island. It is possible, however, that it was another plane, far in the future, since Ben pointed out to Hurley that Jacob’s rules of no one coming or going from the Island could be changed.

Jack died knowing that his death had purpose; he knew that the Island was saved and would be safe from the now dead Smoke Monster, and he knew that his friends had escaped the island. Fake John Locke/The Smoke Monster’s attempt to make Jack believe that he would die for nothing failed epically (I can’t believe I just said that hahahahaha…Epic fail).

I believe Jack took the longest to accept that he is dead because it took the longest for him to let go and have the emotional experience that would bring on the memories. As Locke had told him, Jack had to let go of his father, to accept his father’s death, and to accept his father for everything that he was and wasn’t. That was why Jack was a father in the Flash-Sideways, so he could experience what his father might have gone through – so that he might understand his father better. Jack never got closure for his father’s death; I don’t believe he ever did in his life, and he didn’t get a chance to have a funeral for him until the lost coffin was found and delivered in the Flash-Sideways. In his life, Jack was, in fact, plagued by his father appearing to be alive after he died via The Smoke Monster’s use of his corpse. In the Flash-Sideways, Jack finally had a chance to gain the closure he needed, and so when he touched the coffin, the memories from his life were finally ignited. He once again saw his father appearing to be alive, and his father could explain all that was happening. Jack was finally able to let go.

The Death of the Smoke Monster and the Life of Richard

It was interesting to see that the Light might have been holding Fake John Locke on the Island, and it was almost certainly the force that kept him indestructible. Only after the Light was extinguished could Kate’s Jack-saving bullet affect him, and only then could Jack kill the Smoke Monster. Therefore, I imagine the Light was also the mechanism by which Jacob’s gift of immortality worked on Richard; when it was extinguished, Richard began to age, and with the prospect of dying someday, he could finally enjoy the life he had left.

Conclusion (Because I’m not creative enough to come up with a better title for this concluding section)

I really did love this episode. I haven’t been able to stop thinking about it. It truly was satisfying, and, despite the many tears that flowed and despite the deathly ending, it was a happy ending. As a friend pointed out (yes, this friend is the one I keep mentioning in this posting), this episode provided much-needed closure, both for the characters, and for the show. They were all dead, but many of them probably led long lives. They might not have experienced all the happy things they should have in their lives, but they got to experience those things in an afterlife. They were all together, as they were supposed to be – as they were destined to be. Jacob selected them because they were alone like he was, but, thanks to Jacob, they weren’t alone anymore.

SPOILER ALERT – Lost Season 6: Thoughts During “The End”

The following are thoughts I had during the final episode of Lost, written in sort of a Twitter-like (Twittery?) way. See this blog posting for post-show analysis, and this one for pre-show thoughts during the retrospective, “The Final Journey.”


I think I’ve forgiven Sawyer – I don’t seem to hate him anymore for killing Sun, Jin, Sayid, and Lapidus. I’m wondering if Kate will end up with him or Jack in the New Reality/Flash-Sideways, and I think I would be happy either way.

I’m so stubborn that even though Jack has already become the new Jacob, I still feel like Hurley is very Jacobian. His mannerisms, his New Reality and old reality confidence mixed with his natural sympathy and morals, and his genuine desire to help people, particularly his friends from his old life, all seems so very Jacob-like. It really hit me when he told Charlie he was sorry before he shot him with a tranquilizer gun. It was so nice to see the genuine happiness in Hurley’s face when he saw Charlie for the first time in the New Reality; as the producers said in the retrospective and as I began to guess previously, Hurley (and also Desmond) seems to have full access to all the memories from the reality we are familiar with.

When I wondered who helped Desmond out of the well, I never would have thought it was Rose and Bernard. To be honest, I forgot about them again, which I think is what they would want. Unfortunately, the very evil Fake John Locke used threats of murdering them to get Desmond to go with him and do his bidding. Interestingly, Fake Locke claims to have promised to never hurt them. If he will sink the island, that would inevitably hurt them. As always, he is lying.

Speaking of sinking the island, the end became obvious when Fake Locke said he would destroy the island by sinking it, since the producers said the island no longer exerts its effects since it’s under water in the New Reality/Flash-Sideways. Or maybe that was all just to throw us off.

As I expected, Richard is not dead, and was only knocked out. I had been thinking (but I don’t think I wrote this) that perhaps Jacob’s gift of immortality died with him (Jacob); however, clearly it did not.

BEST MEMORY OF A PAST LIFE EVER!!!!!! Jin and Sun. Everything is ok now. They remembered everything when Juliet (!) was their baby ultrasound doctor; they remembered the island, each other, when Sun thought Jin was dead, their English, their best reunion ever, and dying together. Omg, greatest moment on Lost ever! Now it’s all ok. Their deaths in the reality we’re familiar with made this moment better than it could have been. I can therefore fully forgive Sawyer now.

Holy crap! Lapidus is alive!!! And he wants to fly Richard and Miles off the island! But the plane is already full of explosives that Widmore installed! Oh no! But wait, didn’t Richard and Miles know that too?

That’s strange, Richard has a gray hair, though he’s not supposed to age, and he was happy about this, explaining that he just realized he wants to live. Is it because he’s now going to age and die like a non-immortal, and my suspicion that Jacob’s gift died with him was accurate?

It’s kind of funny that Jack in the New Reality is trying to improve Real Locke’s life and half joked that he could kill him, while in the reality we’re familiar with, he is trying to kill Fake Locke.

I knew it!!!!! Juliet is Jack’s baby-mama (and ex-wife), just as I predicted!!!!!!

Hurley in the New Reality is sounding more and more Jacob-like, saying things like he’s not allowed to tell Sayid something because there are rules and he should trust him, and that Sayid is a good person. Even in the reality we’re familiar with, he told Jack he believes in him when they separated when Jack went with Desmond and Fake Locke toward the Light. Maybe Hurley is secretly the new Jacob somehow. It was cute how Fake Locke said that Jack being the new Jacob is the obvious choice hahahaha, it sure is.

Wow, Sayid’s destiny was Shannon – I thought it was Nadia. I guess that’s what I get for missing giant chunks of seasons.

This episode is ripping my heart to pieces, jumping from one reality to the other, happy fate finding and love finding times to crazy world ending apocalyptic times.

What does Desmond mean when he says they’re going to leave once everyone knows about their previous life and their fate? And why isn’t he taking Daniel Widmore/Faraday with him? Are they going back to the island? The one that’s underwater in this reality? Or are they going to another island? Why would they leave if they can have their destinies in the real world? Apparently, Eloise Hawking/Widmore knows of the previous life and island, and that was why she didn’t want Desmond to start looking for Penny. It wasn’t about her jealousy of her husband’s other child, as I suggested before.

I guess if they didn’t jump between the heart wrenching and the heart warming, we wouldn’t be able to handle it – it would be too overwhelming. It was nice that they had Gene Wilder gently singing about imagination in the Willy Wonka song in the commercial directly after one of the heart wrenching moments, as if to calm us down and remind us that this is fiction – it’s pure imagination.

Ben isn’t evil; he was just trying to survive. He went right back to helping his new friends when he became separated from Fake Locke. And now he, along with the kingly Hurley, wants to help Jack rekindle the Light that Desmond was told to turn off. Ben said if the island is going down he’s going down with it, but I think it’s more than that. I think he wants to help his new friends, for the sake of the good of humanity, and for the sake of the good in his soul.

Hurley will be the new Jacob! I mean the new Jack! Because Jack is going to sacrifice himself as Desmond did to rekindle the Light that Desmond was told to turn off! And before he does, he is going to make Hurley the new New Jacob, i.e. the new Jack! Jacob said Jack would protect the Island for as long as he could – that didn’t have to mean an eternity! I totally wrote all that before Jack just said “it needs to be you, Hugo.”!!!! I was right all along!!!! That was why Jacob said, “I’m not going to choose, Hugo.” I thought he was just taunting me, since without punctuation that becomes “I’m not going to choose Huge,” but he wasn’t taunting me. Jacob didn’t choose Hurley because Jack would choose Hurley!

Desmond’s alive! Woohoo!

Omg, I love Hurley, and I love Ben, and I love that Ben told Hurley what I’ve sort of been saying all along – that Hurley will do what he does best: take care of people. In return, Hurley gave Ben what he (Ben) always wanted: recognition of his importance and usefulness. Hurley asked Ben to help him, and Ben was honored, and this is how it was supposed to be, and I love Lost.

Omg, I don’t think I ever cried so much because of the TV. They’re all dead. All of them. They want to leave because it’s not the real world at all; it’s Heaven, or some kind of afterlife. Christian Shephard explained to Jack that they created this so they could find each other because their time together was the most important part of their lives. That’s why the show began with Jack’s eye opening on the island and ended with his eye closing on the island. Jack’s life, and all of their lives, happened on that island. That’s why their lives were all better in the New Reality, because it wasn’t reality at all, and that’s why the producers called that portion of the plot the “Flash-Sideways” and why I was very wrong to call it the “New Reality.” I was right, though, sort of, when I said the New Reality/Flash-Sideways is what Hurley as the new Jacob wove as their new improved lives. Except it was all of them, perhaps led by Hurley, perhaps not. It was comforting to hear that some of them died before Jack and some long after, and that there is no “now,” because we can therefore assume that most of them lived long lives. Now I understand why Ben was working things out before going into the church; he wasn’t ready to move on. I assume this is because he did a lot of evil things in his life, and he needed to work through that, the way he seemed rather distraught for what he did to Locke. His apology to Locke and Locke’s forgiveness really meant so much, not just to Locke and Ben, but to us.

I had a feeling the show would end with Jack’s eye closing, because the producers were hinting at it, when they said on talk shows that they knew what image the series would end on from the beginning

Lost is brilliant. The producers are brilliant. I apologize to the producers for all the mean things I said about them. They’re not evil at all. They’re brilliant. I love Lost. Best show ever. Best episode ever. I kind of hate it though; I wanted the New Reality to be the realest reality, not the fakest. But I can’t deny it, it was amazing.

SPOILER ALERT – Lost Season 6: Before “The End”

The following are some thoughts I had while watching the pre-Lost-finale retrospective, “The Final Journey,” written in sort of a Twitter-like way. For my thoughts during the Lost finale written in the same fashion, go here, and for my normal blog posting about the finale, go here.


The Lost producers explained that the Flash-Sideways is what happens when the island is not pulling the characters toward itself; therefore, it has nothing to do with anything the new Jacob is doing, as I had thought. I guess I should have realized that since the island is under water in the Flash-Sideways, however, I assumed that New Jacob could somehow still be functional underwater. Since they are suggesting that is not the case, then perhaps Fake John Locke/The Smoke Monster succeeded in destroying the Island, and if that is the case, then all that talk of the Light was a big lie, or a misperception, a superstition carried from one Jacob to the next, from one divine generation to the next.

The lack of Island gravity pulling the characters toward it and toward each other suggest that it truly was fate drawing them together.

I was somewhat correct then, when, early in the season, I wondered if the New Reality/Flash-Sideways is what happens when Jacob might not have been affecting their lives. I was just wrong more recently when I suggested that the new Jacob (whom I was sure would be Hurley) was influencing their lives in order to improve them.

I didn’t realize that Real John Locke never told Jack that he was in a wheelchair in his pre-Island days. Clearly that means I was more correct than I realized when I said Locke never accepted his disability so that he could move on with his life in the reality we’re familiar with.

The producers explained that in the Flash-Sideways, the characters ask for and provide help for each other, which is different from the reality we’re familiar with. I didn’t notice that distinction, but it explains why they aren’t empty or without purpose in the New Realty; their purpose is to help each other, and in so doing, they attain happiness, and are not so deeply flawed, as they were when Jacob chose them as candidates. Jacob told them they needed the Island because they were alone; in the Flash-Sideways, they are not alone, for they found each other, as if by fate, or, I stubbornly say, by Hurley…I mean Jacob…I mean Jack.